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Chapel Hill, Gay Rights, and the Spring Interns’ Oral History Performance

At three in the afternoon on Wednesday, April 30th, our undergraduate interns from this past semester performed the oral histories of their interviewees. Aaron Hayworth, Katie Crook, Coco Wilder, and Turner Henderson had each conducted two interviews with people who had been a part of Chapel Hill’s gay community during the seventies, eighties, and nineties.

I explore some key excerpts from the script below. The excerpts are indented and italicized, and my thoughts will stay in the regular format. You can find short bios for each interviewee at the end of this post.

Beginning of Excerpts

Dawkins: I knew that I was attracted to men sexually, but I didn’t know exactly what it was.

Carden: Well we weren’t into ‘out, o-u-t’ at that time….you’d get the hell beat out of you.

There’s nothing more refreshing sometimes than to hear something like the above statements to bring us to attention.

Carden: Chapel Hill was pretty liberal.

Kenan: But it was still kind of hush-hush.

E. Patrick Johnson: When I was here at UNC, there was no “coming-out process”.

Nakell: I think people were a little cautious in those days about being identified as members of the CGA [Carolina Gay Association].

What would it have been like to be gay at UNC during this time? What would it have been like to be straight?

 Nakell: I remember when I first became a faculty advisor to the Carolina Gay Association. I asked somebody…if he thought I’d lose any friends as a result of it. He said, “oh, you’ll probably get new ones!” Which turned out to be true!

Carmichael: I just didn’t feel at home [at the CGA].

Kenan: Most of the gay black men I knew, I knew through the Black Student Movement choir.

Phoenix: I didn’t feel like I fit in that crowd in the same way. So that’s what led me to create a network of gay people [at ECU].

Kenan: The CGA was more of a social function than a political one.

The mood shifted.

 Dawkins: Then people started getting sick….It was terrifying.

Carmichael: Nobody knew what it was. Finally they came out and said the word “AIDS” out loud but AIDS wasn’t in the news yet. Of course President Reagan didn’t say anything for six years.

Phoenix: I went to a lot of funerals.

Kenan: Everything changed with AIDS and ACT UP and Queer Nation and all those people…There was a  lag between Stonewall and that period…..Reagan was president, conservatism was on the rise. So, just speaking out…was a pretty radical thing.

Phoenix: Buncomb had found the AZT medication which was the first medication that gave you a shot at not having a death sentence from AIDS, but it was priced so high…trying to make a profit rather than addressing the epidemic.

Carden: You want something done you do it yourself.

Phoenix: [we laid] down across the road where the service delivery trucks [for the pharmaceutical company] came in…like you’re going to have to run over us if you want to go in and out.

 But ultimately, these interviewees were not defined first by their sexuality, like many outsiders view them. People are people are people.

Dawkins: In a lot of ways, I don’t think of myself as being a gay man anymore. I mean, I definitely am, but it’s not a major part of my life at this point…

Gates: It’s just one aspect of my personality…

And where are we today?

 Nakell: The law generally moves slowly and incrementally. And generally you want to take it step by step to establish…gay rights….I’m really astonished…with the speed at which it’s happened. It’s happening at lightning speed.

Kenan: For gay people, I think we are in for a much longer slog than we realize, because, as Lyndon Johnson said about the Vietnam War, it has to also be about winning hearts and minds. And I think that the window dressing is cool, but a lot of hearts and minds are far from being changed. And a lot of political correctness is masking that. I worry. As fast as things are happening, I don’t know how real that is.

Phoenix: We still have a tremendous amount of unemployment in the community, we still have…employment discrimination, we still have…discrimination in banking…and healthcare.

John Dawkins sums it up best.

 Dawkins: The biggest problem that gay people have is just being able to live their lives without harassment and without being judged for being gay. That’s getting better and better, but it’s still got a long way to go.

 Applause broke out. Aaron, Katie, Turner, and Coco had done an excellent job of unifying the interviews while paying attention to their differences and they did it with empathy. For me, it clicked.

For any marginalized group, visibility is power. There’s a movement currently going on in the South for gays and lesbians to talk with families and neighbors about their experiences because, as Randall Kenan quoted from Lyndon Johnson, it really is about “hearts and minds.”

Iris Murdoch wrote, “Love is the extremely difficult realization that something other than oneself is real.” It is important to connect the dots between the national (or state, or local) discourse on gay rights and the individuals themselves. When it’s someone you care for, the struggles of these people become more real.

So it’s onward for the undergraduate interns, but speaking for the SOHP and the audience, we’re all grateful for the performance.

-Katie Womble

 

The Interviewees:

E. Patrick Johnson attended UNC in the 1980s. Now a professor at Northwestern University, his most recent project is Gathering Honey, a performance based on oral histories with African American lesbians in the South. He is also the author of Sweet Tea: Black Gay Men in the South.

Gary Carden has been a hair stylist in Chapel Hill since moving here in 1970. Carden was a pioneer in opening unisex salons and the gay bar, the Electric Company.

Dr. Phelps Gates was a classics professor at UNC in the 1970s. His recollections of gay “hotspots” on campus are of particular import.

Dr. Randall Kenan attended UNC as a student in the 1980s and is now a well-respected author and professor of English at UNC.

Dr. James Carmichael attended UNC in the 1980s for his doctorate in library sciences.

John Dawkins attended UNC in the 1970s and is now retired and living in Chapel Hill.

Dr. Terri Phoenix is now the director of the UNC-LGBTQ Center. Dr. Phoenix holds degrees from three universities and has worked and lived all over the South. The LGBTQ Center recently celebrated its 10th anniversary. Phoenix was recently interviewed by Frank Stasio of WUNC.

Barry Nakell is currently a layer in Chapel Hill. He was formerly a professor at the UNC School of Law and long-term advisor to the Carolina Gay Association.

Attached are some pictures from the performance, the interior of the program, a snapshot of a page from the script, and a really neat visual that reflects the contents of the script (courtesy of wordle.com).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oral History and New Media Methods of Presentation

The quality and quantity of oral histories in the SOHP’s collections is among the best in the world, however it is not only the collection that distinguishes the SOHP, but the ways in which those histories are shared. During his presentation at the SOHP’s 40th Anniversary, Dr. Seth Kotch said a major challenge facing oral historians is that nobody listens to interviews, a statement that resonated with many interviewers in the audience.  Last week, at the 40th Anniversary Celebration of the SOHP, students and faculty displayed the diverse ways the SOHP shares oral history.  The afternoon’s agenda appeared to be a reaction to the harsh truth that many oral histories are not played after being archived.  The celebration featured a performance from previous undergraduate interns about the North Carolina Speaker Ban, a sound booth to listen to SOHP clips, a presentation of the Media and the Movement blog by Joshua Davis and Seth Kotch, a panel with former interviewees and interviewers, and a walking tour of campus featuring UNC’s History of Student Activism. As the festivities came to an end, I left Wilson Library with a feeling of defiant optimism, as if the SOHP and scholars like me and my fellow interns could change the reality that oral histories are often overlooked and underused.

map of audio tour

There has never been a better time for oral history to be shared and accessed throughout the world than now, with technology opening new doors for interviewers and librarians to archive interviews. The challenge now facing scholars is to adapt their work to share in new ways, which means welcoming multi-media formats like blogs and mobile applications. Scholars in the Digital Humanities have boldly faced this challenge by using new formats in connection with or in lieu of a traditional printed book. Seth Kotch said that when using a public blog there is always a danger in sharing work before it is in a full, publishable form, but the reward of sharing the scholarship with a larger community counters the risk. A research blog creates the chance to share work with people who would not normally be exposed to a larger academic work. In addition to blogs, other multi-media devices are being used to present oral history in contemporary ways. For instance, the listening booth at the 40th Anniversary Celebration featured thematically arranged SoundCloud playlists and posters for SOHP events feature QR codes, which link guests with mobile phones to websites or applications.

As the undergraduate Support Intern at the SOHP this semester, I had the pleasure of inheriting the concept of an audio walking tour. The idea behind the tour was to use clips from our collection that connect to the history of UNC’s campus. After many hours exploring oral histories online I found several clips that stood out and a natural theme emerged, which was “UNC’s History of Student Activism.” Link to the SoundCloud playlist for the tour. The walking tour was a perfect opportunity to share oral history in a new way, so the clips had to be exemplary of the quality of interviews at the SOHP while also touching on compelling histories that are often underappreciated. The tour features interviews dating back to the SOHP’s founding in the 1970s with a clip from interviewer Genna Rae McNeil and up until the present with a clip from recent undergraduate interviewer Charlotte Fryar. Playing these clips in places intimately related to the interviewee conveys the reality of the interviewee’s life and situates the audience in a space to reflect on how the interviewee’s past differs from the present. Normally the deck of Spencer Dormitory is a peaceful spot to sit in a rocking chair and enjoy a nice day, but the space is transformed when you hear Sharon Rose Powell’s story about living in Spencer during the time of in loco parentis rules, when a woman could be expelled for having a guest or violating a dress code. Suddenly, the audience is reminded of how the University is not always a safe space and hearing Powell’s story is an intimation of what it was like to be a female UNC student during the ‘60s.

Undergraduate Interns Aaron Hayworth and Coco Wilder lead guests on the Audio Tour

Undergraduate Interns Aaron Hayworth and Coco Wilder lead guests on the Audio Tour

It is my hope that projects like the walking tour will shape the way scholars and friends of the SOHP relate to and use oral history. The SOHP has printed maps of the walking tour available to guests of the Center for the Study of the American South, which feature QR codes linking to the SoundCloud clips for guests to take a self-guided audio tour of campus. In the coming months the SOHP is also working to turn this tour into a podcast for people around the world to experience, making oral history more accessible than ever before!

“These Were Real People”

Drawn from interviews conducted during the Civil Rights History Project (a joint undertaking of the Smithsonian and the Library of Congress) with Gwendolyn Duncan, Robert Hayling, Guy and Candie Carawan, William Anderson, Purcell Conway, Dorie and Joyce Ladner, Ann Avery, Kathleen Cleaver, Barbara Vickers, Marilyn Hildreth, and Alfred Moldovan, this twenty-five minute video essay tells the story of the civil rights movement in the voices of those who experienced it.

 

[vimeo]https://vimeo.com/37329409[/vimeo]